P.35(p) Radom VIS M1935 Radom P.35(p) -The Radom was one of the favourites of the German troops. It was produced up to end of war The last ones (the Polish production site was occupied by the Russians) were produced in Steyr, Austria. Technical data: Caliber: 9 mm Para Function: Browning 2nd variation; hammer outside; slide catch Barrel length: ca. Mm Weight: ca. G Magazine capacity: Schuss Production data: Company: Fybryka Broni w Radomiu Steyr-Werke Location: Radom Steyr Period: 1939 - 1945 Amount: 313,000 pieces Serial numbers: 001 - 49400 Polish weapons A001 - Z10000 German 1st alphabet-series A001 - K9150 German 2nd alphabet-series The Radom produced by the Germans is split in 3 major variations (grades), according finish, existing of stock slut and the presence of the demounting lever. Grade I (subvariation 3: highpolish-finish; stock slut; with stamped P.35(p) at the slide legend; approx.
47,000 pcs.) Characteristics: Legend: RADOM VIS Mod. 15567 'P.35(p)' Finish: highpolish-finish; blued Grips: black chequered Bakelit grips on left side FB logo on right side VIS logo Serial number: 4-digit number with prefix on right frame 4-digit number with prefix inside slide 3-digit number on barrel Acceptance stamp: E/77 left on slide E/77 left on frame E/77 right on frame E/77 right on barrel E/623 left on slide (final acceptance at Steyr) E/189 on mag base Test proof stamp: E HK left on slide E HK left on barrel Grade II (subvariation 1: military-finish; no stock slut; with P.35(p) at the slide legend; approx. 70,400 pcs.) Characteristics: Legend: RADOM VIS Mod. 15567 'P.35(p)' Finish: military-finish; blued Grips: black chequered Bakelit grips on left side FB logo on right side VIS logo Serial number: 4-digit number with prefix on right frame 4-digit number with prefix inside slide 3-digit number on barrel Acceptance stamp: E/77 left on slide E/77 left on frame E/77 right on frame E/77 right on barrel E/623 left on slide (final acceptance at Steyr) E/189 on mag base Test proof stamp: E HK left on slide E HK left on barrel Grade II (subvariation 2: military-finish; no stock slut; no P.35(p) at the slide legend; approx. 73,600 pcs.) Characteristics: Legend: RADOM VIS Mod.
Diffenitly a early German P35(p). If I read the marking on the trigger guard correctly and that's a 'M' under the eagle then its a Kreigsmarine issue.
Most Kreigsmarine stamped guns are on the bottom of the Atlantic! I don't have my references handy (I'm away from home as usual) but will check when I get home. Is there anyone here that has a copy of 'Axis Pistols of WWII'? (red hard bound cover). There are some excellent photos of the P35(p) in there along with production runs, variants, etc. I've got a later wartime model without the take down lever on the frame.
Verry interesting Radom you have there! OK, I'm back home with my reference book 'AXIS PISTOLS' by Jan C. Still pg 66 ref the VIS M1935 (RADOM) (P.35p) The Eagle proof on the trigger guard is not a Kreigsmarine (E/sw/M) but a German commerical proof (E/N). The slide markings indicate a later production late Grade II subvariation 2 (late) or early Grade III ('F.B. RADOM VIS Mod. 15567' there's is no Polish eagle (early models) nor Grade I -P.35(p) marking at end.
Frame is not cut for the stock cut which was did away with Grade I subvariation 3 (late). It does have the take down latch. Here's the info for the last two grades Grade II Stock slot eliminated; military-blue finish; stamped left slide legend 'F.B. RADOM VIS Mod. 15567 P.35(p)'; both E/WaA77 or E/77 and E/623 acceptence stamp; barrel-recoil spring-guide in the white; Est prod 144,000 Grade II Subvariation 2: Wihout 'P.35(p)' on slide legend and at about serial number NO1 change to late E/77 acceptance stamp; the following changes also occur: elimination of finger clearance cuts; red, brown or black plastic or checkered wood grips; riveted trigger assembly; large grip screws and hollow head pins; serial range M8400 to Z2000. Est prod 73,600 Grade III: Take down latch eliminated; slide legend 'F.B. RADOM VIS Mod.
15567'; large grip screws; red, brown or black plastic or checkered wood grips; riveted trigger assembly; hollow head pins; hammer modified with a notch to hold slide open for disassembly; rough fit and machining with military-blue or phosphate finish; change to one piece recoil guide at about J serial block; serial rane Z2000 to K9150. Est prod 107,000 As far as the serial number goes its a mystrey.
Serial numbers are in blocks of 10,000 with alphabetic prefix (there are no I, O, Q V, X or Y blocks known) Total production Poles: 18,000 German Army 313,000 Kreigsmarine 1,000 with E/M and N property number. Originally Posted By CombatDiver: OK, I'm back home with my reference book 'AXIS PISTOLS' by Jan C. Still pg 66 ref the VIS M1935 (RADOM) (P.35p) The Eagle proof on the trigger guard is not a Kreigsmarine (E/sw/M) but a German commerical proof (E/N).
The slide markings indicate a later production late Grade II subvariation 2 (late) or early Grade III ('F.B. RADOM VIS Mod. 15567' there's is no Polish eagle (early models) nor Grade I -P.35(p) marking at end. Frame is not cut for the stock cut which was did away with Grade I subvariation 3 (late). It does have the take down latch. Here's the info for the last two grades Grade II Stock slot eliminated; military-blue finish; stamped left slide legend 'F.B. RADOM VIS Mod.
15567 P.35(p)'; both E/WaA77 or E/77 and E/623 acceptence stamp; barrel-recoil spring-guide in the white; Est prod 144,000 Grade II Subvariation 2: Wihout 'P.35(p)' on slide legend and at about serial number NO1 change to late E/77 acceptance stamp; the following changes also occur: elimination of finger clearance cuts; red, brown or black plastic or checkered wood grips; riveted trigger assembly; large grip screws and hollow head pins; serial range M8400 to Z2000. Est prod 73,600 Grade III: Take down latch eliminated; slide legend 'F.B. RADOM VIS Mod. 15567'; large grip screws; red, brown or black plastic or checkered wood grips; riveted trigger assembly; hollow head pins; hammer modified with a notch to hold slide open for disassembly; rough fit and machining with military-blue or phosphate finish; change to one piece recoil guide at about J serial block; serial rane Z2000 to K9150.
Est prod 107,000 As far as the serial number goes its a mystrey. Serial numbers are in blocks of 10,000 with alphabetic prefix (there are no I, O, Q V, X or Y blocks known) Total production Poles: 18,000 German Army 313,000 Kreigsmarine 1,000 with E/M and N property number.
CD Thanks for the info. This gun DOES have the stock slot though.
Check this thread out for more info if your interested - http://luger.gunboards.com/showthread.php?t=17812. Polishmike, Thanks for the link. I do believe you have a unique factory Radom.
The frame appears to be an earlier model perhaps left in the white at the factory then mated to a later slide (or perhaps the slide was never stamped at the time) and given later slide engraving with a mid wartime finish. The #12 stampings would indicate limited test production???? So, in all this rambling early test Polish pistol in white give mid wartime slide markings and finish. Still uncertain as to lack of German Army Acceptence marks? (FYI the Radom factory was captured by the Germans on 12 Sep 39) CD.
I thought you might be interested in seeing a Polish P.35 9mm Radom pistol. At first glance it might appear homely, but the Radom is considered by many experts as one of the best pistols to come out of the WWII period. It was well made and robust. Poland produced this pistol, which had a blend of features from the M1911 pistol and the Belgian 9mm High Power. It has a grip safety like the M1911, and the barrel is unlocked via a cam like the High Power.
The lever on the slide is a decocker - it retracts the firing pin into the slide and drops the hammer on the hammer retaining plate. The lever to the rear of the grip frame is not a safety - it's a slide retaining latch to aid in disassembly. The slide release is just above the trigger on the left side. There is no manual safety; the design relies solely on a half-cock notch or the floating firing pin which allows safe carry with the hammer down.
The decocker was put on the gun in response to a request by the Polish cavalry to help in operating the pistol one-handed; the other hand had to control the reins of a horse. Men on horseback wielding pistols were not a good match for German tanks, however.
When Germany overran Poland in 1939, it took over the Radom plant and began to produce the pistol for its armed forces, including the Navy, fallschirmjaegers (paratroopers), police and the SS. The native Polish workers promptly began smuggling parts of the pistol out of the plant to arm resistance forces. When the Germans found out about this practice, they executed a dozen plant workers in front of their co-workers. Later, to stop sabotage, the Germans started making barrels for the pistols in Austria, and later moved all the machinery to Austria. This particular pistol was made in Poland in 1942, and bears the German waffenamt acceptance stamps.
Kamidori alchemy meister full save. Later guns dispensed with the takedown latch. Earlier ones were slotted for a shoulder stock. The 'VIS' on the right grip panel is Latin for 'power' or 'force.'
The 'FB' on the left grip panel stands for Fabryka Brony (Weapon Factory), the Polish government manufacturing facility in Radom, Poland. This gun is in excellent shape for being 70 years old, and could still give good service. It will fire any commonly available 9mm Luger ammo. Luckily for collectors, Germans have always been meticulous about marking their firearms, both military and commercial. It's fun to 'read the marks' that can tell you a lot about firearms made in or accepted by Germany. Here are the marks on a Polish P.35 Radom pistol made in 1942.
In this picture you will see the 'Eagle over WaA77' mark on both the slide and the frame. This waffenamt codes the pistol as being made at the Polish weapons factory in Radom. The next mark (somewhat indistinct) 'P.35(p)' is the official German designation for the Radom P.35. The (p) stands for polnische, the German word for 'polish'. The Eagle over Swastika indicates ownership by Nazi Germany.
The 'Eagle over 623' stamp indicates that the pistol was given its final acceptance at the Steyr plant in Austria. From there it was likely shipped to the German armed forces, likely paratroopers, police or SS. The markings on the barrel camming lug are fairly straightforward. At the top are the last three digits of the serial number, insuring that the proper barrel is mated with the proper slide and frame. Next are two 'Eagle over 623' acceptance stamps by the Steyr plant in Austria. Probably dimension checks and a proof load.
And finally, the 'Eagle over swastika' ownership stamp of Nazi Germany. Again, the history of a German firearm can be read if you know their marking customs and codes. Although this is a Polish-made firearm, if the Germans used it, it was marked per their protocols. Hope you found this as interesting as I did.
Luckily for collectors, Germans have always been meticulous about marking their firearms, both military and commercial. It's fun to 'read the marks' that can tell you a lot about firearms made in or accepted by Germany. Here are the marks on a Polish P.35 Radom pistol made in 1942. In this picture you will see the 'Eagle over WaA77' mark on both the slide and the frame.
This waffenamt codes the pistol as being made at the Polish weapons factory in Radom. The next mark (somewhat indistinct) 'P.35(p)' is the official German designation for the Radom P.35. The Eagle over Swastika indicates ownership by Nazi Germany. The 'Eagle over 623' stamp indicates that the pistol was given its final acceptance at the Steyr plant in Austria. From there it was likely shipped to the German armed forces, likely paratroopers, police or SS.
The markings on the barrel camming lug are fairly straightforward. At the top are the last three digits of the serial number, insuring that the proper barrel is mated with the proper slide and frame. Next are two 'Eagle over 623' acceptance stamps by the Steyr plant in Austria.
Probably dimension checks and a proof load. And finally, the 'Eagle over swastika' ownership stamp of Nazi Germany.
Again, the history of a German firearm can be read if you know their marking customs and codes. Although this is a Polish-made firearm, if the Germans used it, it was marked per their protocols. Hope you found this as interesting as I did. John John- The same is true of their wine labels, which are very informative. It's well worth learning to read them. Great pics, as usual.
A high school buddy had one of these, but I never got to shoot it. I think he paid $17.50 for it, in NRA Very Good condition.That was back in the 1960's, though. They've gone up. My first handgun was a Webley MK VI converted to.45 ACP.
Back then, I didn't know the pressure issues in a gun proofed for.455. But it never blew a chamber. My mother had to sign the paperwork, as I was just 13. Father got me a Colt M1917 a couple of Christmases later. The Webley cost $13.88, the Colt three bucks more.
Jul 11, 2018 - Download the IW4X Updater HERE and follow the prompts. HOW TO INSTALL MW2 IW4X FOR FREE - UPDATED July 2018. Jan 15, 2018 - Description To play mw2 pirate online follow the next steps: Download the map pack Simulus: MEDIAFIRE DOWNLOAD 1- 2- 3- 4- 5-. Iw4m.exe download.
4 SMLE by Savage arrived about then, too, but I don't know the price. Probably $14.95 at a famous department store. The Webley came from Montgomery Ward's. Can you imagine dept. Stores selling guns now?! I like the way the Radom fits my hand, but never bought one. The lack of a conventional 1911 style safety bothered me, and I put my meager funds into a real Colt.45 auto.
The Germans made wide use of them, probably in part because they took the standard 9mm round. I've seen a photo of one on a Jerry in North Africa. I thought you might be interested in seeing a Polish P.35 9mm Radom pistol. At first glance it might appear homely, but the Radom is considered by many experts as one of the best pistols to come out of the WWII period. It was well made and robust. Poland produced this pistol, which had a blend of features from the M1911 pistol and the Belgian 9mm High Power.
It has a grip safety like the M1911, and the barrel is unlocked via a cam like the High Power. The lever on the slide is a decocker - it retracts the firing pin into the slide and drops the hammer on the hammer retaining plate. The lever to the rear of the grip frame is not a safety - it's a slide retaining latch to aid in disassembly.
The slide release is just above the trigger on the left side. There is no manual safety; the design relies solely on a half-cock notch or the floating firing pin which allows safe carry with the hammer down. The decocker was put on the gun in response to a request by the Polish cavalry to help in operating the pistol one-handed; the other hand had to control the reins of a horse.
Men on horseback wielding pistols were not a good match for German tanks, however. When Germany overran Poland in 1939, it took over the Radom plant and began to produce the pistol for its armed forces, including the Navy, fallschirmjaegers (paratroopers), police and the SS. The native Polish workers promptly began smuggling parts of the pistol out of the plant to arm resistance forces. When the Germans found out about this practice, they executed a dozen plant workers in front of their co-workers. Later, to stop sabotage, the Germans started making barrels for the pistols in Austria, and later moved all the machinery to Austria. This particular pistol was made in Poland in 1942, and bears the German waffenamt acceptance stamps. Later guns dispensed with the takedown latch.
Earlier ones were slotted for a shoulder stock. The 'VIS' on the right grip panel is Latin for 'power' or 'force.' The 'FB' on the left grip panel stands for Fabryka Brony (Weapon Factory), the Polish government manufacturing facility in Radom, Poland. This gun is in excellent shape for being 70 years old, and could still give good service. It will fire any commonly available 9mm Luger ammo. John I have really appreciated reading this thread. I have a Mod 35 VIS 9mm.
It has a serial number starting with a P. It has solid pins. It has a white barrel. It does have the take down lever. All numbers matching. It has all the acceptance marks. It is approximately 85 to 90%.
Speaking of the acceptance marks; this is what I have been trying to learn is exactly what they all mean. This thread finally gave me that information!
I have been considering selling my Radom, but the more I learn about it, the less I want to sell it. It does shoot very nicely. Economics still might force me to sell it.
Radom Vis P35 Serial Numbers
However, I don't really know for certain what it is worth. I have heard as low as $300 and as high as $1200. I will not give it away. If all I can get is $500 or less - I will definitely keep it. I will post pictures of it when I get a chance. Any advise from you, since you really seam to know this gun and it's values?
One big sin I committed years ago was selling one I had inherited from my uncle. He was in the 82nd AB with the gliders. He said he and his buddys found a crate of I think 14 of them in a wharehouse. He said they were all new in the holsters with the extra magazines and tools.
Fb Radom Vis Model 35
They all split them up. When he died I also inherited a luger, a.32 browning etc. I did shoot it a little. I planned on keeping the luger but later that was stolen too. I hate myself for it.
It still looked brand new in the holster. The serial # is H 1535. The first toy gun that I can remember: Uncle eldon came home from the war with the random I wrote of earlier on this thread. I was 5 years old, saw him get out of a car in front of our store with his war bag. He came in and mom and aunt isla went nuts kissing him. I wondered about that.
Dad that night told me to look through his guns and pick one. I picked the random.
Dad traced it on a board, sawed it out and carved some highlights on it and gave it to me. The next day I took it to school and some older boys put me up to showing the teacher 'my pisso' as I called it.
Looks like I found the experts here. I've attached a photo of a 1937 Vis 35.serial 6081. My police department recovered the firearm in the possession of a foreign national. I'm trying to locate an owner.
I was very surprised to find this firearm when most of the people I deal with carry Jennings, Phoenix, or Bryco pistols. The photo on the handle is very interesting and appears to be a 1940's era photo.
You have a treasure there. It's an early Radom with the Polish Eagle on the slide, made in 1937, before the German invasion in 1939. These pre-war examples have the best finish and are highly desirable collectibles. The photo under the plastic (non-standard) grip piece does appear to reflect some 1940s-era women. If only the gun could talk! The magazine appears to be one from a German P.38.
Looks like I found the experts here. I've attached a photo of a 1937 Vis 35.serial 6081. My police department recovered the firearm in the possession of a foreign national. I'm trying to locate an owner. I was very surprised to find this firearm when most of the people I deal with carry Jennings, Phoenix, or Bryco pistols.
The photo on the handle is very interesting and appears to be a 1940's era photo. Scoutwookie: I recently read a book about a young American officer in WW-II who took a piece of plexiglass off of a downed aircraft and made grips similar to yours for his issued 1911. He then placed a photo of his wife and child under the plexiglass grips and carried it that way throughout the remainder of the war. If I can find the book again (it was from the public library) I will post a reference to it. To me, I think the original or previous owner of your Radom did a very similar thing. Regards, Dave.
Comments are closed.
|
AuthorWrite something about yourself. No need to be fancy, just an overview. ArchivesCategories |